James O’Keefe Girlfriend Who Is James O’Keefe’S Wife Is James O’Keefe Married To Beverley Knight? Top 109 Best Answers

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James Edward O’Keefe III was born on June 28, 1984 in Bergen County, New Jersey, USA. James is an American far-right political activist and provocateur.

James can also be consered an undercover journalist. James produces secretly recorded undercover audio and video encounters in academic, government and social organizations. This is to entify abusive or unlawful conduct by representatives of these organizations.

In April 2021, James’ Twitter account was permanently suspended for violating Twitter’s rules on platform manipulation and spam. James broke rules that users are not allowed to mislead others with fake accounts or “artificially amplify or interrupt conversations” by using multiple accounts.

Is James O’Keefe Married To Beverley Knight?

Yes, on September 8, 2012, Knight married James O’Keefe.

Who Is James O’Keefe’s Wife?

Beverley Knight, MBE was born Beverley Anne Smith on March 22, 1973 in Wolverhampton, England. Beverly is an English recording artist and musical theater actress. Knight released her debut album, The B-Funk, in 1995.

Beverley Knight \u0026 Husband James talk mental health, life in the spotlight and who’s the boss!

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Beverley Knight \u0026 Husband James talk mental health, life in the spotlight and who’s the boss!

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See some more details on the topic James O’Keefe Girlfriend Who Is James O’Keefe’s Wife Is James O’Keefe Married To Beverley Knight here:

Knight married James O’Keefe. – 44Bars.com

James O’Keefe Girlfriend: Who Is James O’Keefe’s Wife? Is James O’Keefe Married To Beverley Knight? James Edward O’Keefe III was born on June 28， 1984， in …

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Source: 44bars.com

Date Published: 6/11/2022

Beverley Knight marries fiance James O’Keefe – Express & Star

Soul singer Beverley Knight was marrying her fiancé James O’Keefe today, telling her fans: “I’m marrying the man of my dreams”.

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Source: www.expressandstar.com

Date Published: 6/18/2021

Beverley Knight husband: Singer ‘just knew’ James was ‘The …

Beverley Knight is married to production technician James O’Keefe. In 2010 it emerged the couple had become engaged, and they married in 2012.

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Source: www.express.co.uk

Date Published: 12/8/2021

Beverley Knight & Husband James talk mental health, life in …

It’s my bike. James O’Keefe: that was my girl. Beverley Knight: Oh, yeah, I was having it and I was six, and I …

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Source: paracelsusrehab.medium.com

Date Published: 6/25/2022

Beverley Knight marries fiance James O’Keefe

Soul singer Beverley Knight today married her fiancé James O’Keefe and told her fans: “I’m marrying the man of my dreams”.

The 39-year-old from Wolverhampton announced the wedding to her followers on Twitter. She became engaged to production engineer Mr. O’Keefe in November 2010.

She wrote on her Twitter page today: “Luvs today I’m marrying the man of my dreams.” Thank you all for your happy tweets. I’m coming back after my honeymoon. Next time I tweet I’ll be Mrs O’Keefe!”

Beverley Knight husband Singer ‘just knew’ James was ‘The One’ the moment they met

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Children in Need will return to the BBC tonight for its 40th annual fundraiser and a star-studded array of celebs are expected to perform. The show aims to raise as much money as possible for charity and singer and theater star Beverley Knight, 47, will be performing for the occasion. Express.co.uk takes a look back at the singer’s sweet love story with husband James O’Keefe.

Beverley Knight’s stage career has spanned decades, having released her first album in 1995.

Beverley has since enjoyed a glittering career as a recording artist, earning three MOBO Awards and platinum status for her 2016 greatest hits album.

Beverley has also dazzled in the theater, starring on the Bodyguard, Memphis, and Cats stages.

In 2007, Beverly’s musical talent was awarded an MBE from the Queen.

READ MORE: Beverly Knight Strictly: Husband shocked ‘I thought I was going to marry an Idris’

Beverley Knight & Husband James talk mental health, life in the spotlight and who’s the boss!

Beverley Knight & husband James talk mental health, living in the spotlight and who’s boss!

The full interview can be found here

Hi I’m Jan Gerber and in this episode of a mental health awareness podcast series I’ll be speaking to Beverley Knight a well known and decorated singer and her husband James O’Keefe who both Beverley and James have been through interesting, sometimes difficult, sometimes very difficult phases in their lives, from childhood through school education to adult life, I am now looking forward to their stories. So here I am with the wonderful Beverly Knight and her wonderful husband James O’Keefe. Why don’t you introduce yourself?

Beverly introduces herself

Beverly Knight: Well, I’m Beverly Knight. I am a singer, author and recently actress. So I’m doing a few things. yes, do it for a while twenty-five years.

Jan Gerber: 25 years, a quarter of a century, as you just said.

Beverly Knight: Twenty-five years a quarter of a century is a long time to do anything, but I love it. So that’s good.

Jan Gerber: Brilliant, do what you love.

Beverly Knight: Absolutely.

Jan Gerber: James.

James O’Keefe: And yes, like you said, I’m James O’Keefe. And I’m currently a property developer. And I suppose also an entrepreneur. I do a few different business activities and just try to have fun on the side, yes.

Jan Gerber: Looks so funny.

James O’Keefe: Yes.

Jan Gerber: Brilliant. Well, welcome to this podcast and thank you for agreeing.

Beverly Knight: It’s my pleasure.

Jan Gerber: Yes, our mission is to spread mental health awareness. And we talked a little bit about you, your story, before this shot. Maybe we’re starting where it all begins with childhood. You both had your own struggles growing up. You had complex parents and complex relationships with your parents, with your fathers. I would say ladies first.

Beverly Knight: Okay.

Jan Gerber: Would you like to talk a bit.

Beverly Knight: Um, I had a happy childhood for the most part. And what made it complicated was _ I was born and raised in the UK. My parents were born and raised in Jamaica in the West Indies. They met in the UK and had us children. So, my mother, I would say, adapted and assimilated to the British way of life fairly quickly. It was something they were used to because Britain used to own Jamaica as a colony. So they were used to the way Britain did things. The British weren’t used to them at all. My father struggled, my father struggled, he came to Britain, he wasn’t treated well at all. I don’t think there were Jamaicans that were treated well at first and then some, you know, sort of.

James O’Keefe: In the past it was like that because my family, my father’s, is Irish.

Beverly Knight: Irish immigrant.

James O’Keefe: So there’s kind of a synergy with the No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish Signs in the past.

Beverly Knight: If we’re looking for dogs, not black, not Irish, and then you’re going to say, okay. So that’s me, you know, and my mom, who’s a woman, probably didn’t suffer from that confrontational prejudice that my dad got the worst of it and didn’t go into detail to talk about it. So, we, when I say we, my older sister, my younger brother. We grew up as part of Britain, but we knew we were a very visible minority. So we’ve sometimes gone through racist episodes, a kind of implicit racism as opposed to too much confrontational racism. And that only happened once where it did, which was awful, when a bunch of skinheads surrounded me on my bike. I was very young, about six, and they said we want your bike, you all shouldn’t be here, and I thought you can’t have my bike. it’s my bike

James O’Keefe: That was my girl.

Beverly Knight: Oh yeah I had it and I was six and I didn’t have it, you know they were like, get up, go back to your own country. I was born here. And they tried to take my bike and I went home, and you know, so things like that happened. But as a kid, I felt like _ I felt like the duality of my existence. I was on the one hand British, on the other hand I had Jamaican roots and there was this duality. And I think my father was uncomfortable with that. He saw these British children growing up before him and while he was delighted that we were growing up and growing up, the keyword for my father was to be educated in Britain. He was really struggling with the British feeling like we’re free to speak freely, you know, we send kids what should speak freely, you know, pretty old-fashioned, and of the three of us I was by far the most talkative. When I thought something was right, you couldn’t reject me. And I would argue with anyone about it. I had this strong self-confidence. You know, my own perspective and if it clashed with my father’s, so be it, I would clashed with my father, and I did, and a lot of that came from his own struggle to fit into a society that really didn’t tat wants him there.

James O’Keefe: And it should be very steadfast, very easy to deal with in a Jamaican way. Isn’t it, as you know, and he had a rough childhood.

Beverly Knight: Yes, my father had a very tough childhood.

James O’Keefe: Same as your mother, very poor.

Beverly Knight: Dad was very poor, my mom was a lot poorer than my dad, and my dad was poor. My father lost both parents when he was young. Therefore, it was difficult for him to show affection. He was raised by an aunt who wasn’t very loving you know she didn’t care and all that stuff in a practical sense but my dad wasn’t a man cause you know oh I love you and give me a hug no way my father wasn’t. I hug very tactilely all the time and always wanted to show that I love you, you know, very demonstratively in a way that my dad wasn’t like that. And so me and my dad initially clashed, me and my mom because we’re very similar personalities, both quite fiery, and both would stand up for what we believed in, but they really were just insignificant. Common but minor. My father and I crashed violently, when we crashed it was violent. And that made for a loving home, but also a complex home because we didn’t feel like we didn’t have money, that wasn’t the problem or anything, and we sat and discussed As a family we were middle class in a lot of ways, you know You, middle class, middle class.

James O’Keefe: Very middle class compared to me

Beverly Knight: We said we weren’t from a legal estate; We don’t come from all the stereotypes associated with black families.

James O’Keefe: Beverley was actually from Wolverhampton, you know.

Beverley Knight: Industrial Midlands, and you know, our family life was secure, but there were struggles, and a lot of that just came from my dad fighting my poor dad to see those kids grow up the way he was. I’m not comfortable with this, you know, when my sister brought my now brother-in-law home, oh my god, he silently seethed, and then the seething turned to a grudge because he didn’t want it to be a thing, yours letting white friends come over games and all that stuff, a whole different thing, bringing home a white friend with very serious intentions. Oh my god that was a fight and my sister wasn’t as vocal as me. So I would fight my sister’s battles for her because I was the grandmother who would never back down. As a result, Dad and I would clash. And it was difficult. It was really. It was hard.

Jan Gerber: Now I’m thinking back to the two-year journey from there and afterwards. Did this dynamic affect you? Did it define you? Did it give you strengths? Or did it cause problems later?

Beverly Knight: Thinking back to that time now, I think it made me even more resilient. I think that’s the best I can say. I was so convinced that my attitude towards other people except, you know how they say, in the middle is your people, how you find them, you know, and I was so convinced that that was the right path and dads deadlocked views that _ that became hardwired for him just turned me the other way and I was determined to open my mind and heart to all sorts of people.

James O’Keefe: The thing is, it came from your mother, too, because.

Beverly Knight: Yes, my mother is much more.

James O’Keefe: Beverley’s mother was like my mother, that synergy was also the one that held it all together and you know and obviously my situation was different but yeah.

Beverley Knight: Yeah mom, I think you know mom’s influence was a factor too because while I was watching my dad destroy a part of himself from struggling so much. On the other hand, I’ve seen my mother deal with prejudice, whether casual or confrontational, that came her way and that she was a part of.

James O’Keefe: Kill ’em with kindness.

Beverly Knight: Yes, kill them with kindness.

James O’Keefe: Yes, and that’s Beverley and that’s different from us.

Beverly Knight: That’s a legacy.

James O’Keefe: Yes, but that’s the difference in us or there will be more. I think men are I think men are better, you know, respond to that. Beverley will be a little you know more or no yeah let’s be a little sometimes but then it’s weird but sometimes it works the other way around it’s where you know when you’re a couple you nurture sometimes from that, yeah it’s weird.

Beverly Knight: Yes, I think so.

James O’Keefe: It made you strong.

Beverly Knight: Oh my god, yes.

James O’Keefe: But you know your father didn’t talk much but about feelings and anything you get him to talk about teenagers needs to be there for four hours. Tell me about many things you know.

Beverly Knight: When was my father able to talk long?

James O’Keefe: He used to talk massively about feelings at times, so that’s one

Beverly Knight: I tend to, yeah, that’s something I have_ I didn’t really realize what I inherited from my father until I met you and you pointed out so much of what I inherited to me have. My inability to speak of deep-seated feelings. I’m going to talk about them in songs because that’s a much more general thing and I can, when you’re writing a song you want to make the message universal while basing it on your own feelings, you still want it, you know , you generalize things so the broadest demographic can understand what you’re singing about. But to get really personal and just go there and talk about things that bother me, I often just sit down on those things, just like my dad, just like my dad.

James O’Keefe: Me, however.

Beverly Knight: On the other hand, you let it all out.

James O’Keefe: My father was also a very manipulative man

James O’Keefe: I think that was when I was like that, then I tell when I was young. My mother and father separated when I was young. We moved to Northridge from London a bit, and you know, back and forth. And my father, who I didn’t know about at the time, was an alcoholic. So, let me down a lot, you know, when I was very young and promised a hell of a lot and always let me down, you know, birthdays, you know, when I’m getting down and my mom always had to do it with to deal with that you know the aftermath exactly. And it would be good. I was an angry kid apparently from the age of two, I don’t know why. i was a nightmare

Beverly Knight: I can probably feel that energy in the house.

James O’Keefe: I don’t know. But my father was also a very manipulative man. He literally drove my mother around the corner almost mentally. That’s why she had to leave him.

Beverly Knight: Your father was a charmer, you tell me.

James O’Keefe: He was a charmer.

Beverly Knight: Very charming, handsome, charming, but there was a catch.

James O’Keefe: Yes, he was. I don’t think he meant it badly. I just think he was quite manipulative and you know and but a great father when we are young like your father you know amazing. When we were young and you know we remember some brilliant things you know about them and that they were my dad was a fantastic storyteller. You know Beverly’s dad was really involved when I was young. You know, and then your father got a bit off track as he got older and became very withdrawn. My father only got worse from drinking that he became very ill. I was then kicked out of my house and lived with my mother when I went to live with my father when I was fifteen. He also kicked me out four months later and then died about a year later. So, you know, very difficult times and I was a very insecure kid. My mother would you know I was always very worried about my mother you know I hated leaving her alone so I wouldn’t go out and stay with my mother very obviously very much.

Beverly Knight: Effectively.

James O’Keefe: But I was a very emotional kid, either very angry or very sad, or you know, there was _ it was just one of the others, you know, and that anger came out a lot. I did a lot of bad things when I was young and always got in trouble with the police and school. You know, I did crazy things, you know, as a little kid, and I don’t think I had a role model. My father was an alcoholic. My brother was an idiot at fighting and he was my role model. And I wanted to be like him. Terrible example, bless him you know and it’s not his fault. He also minded his own business. So I could never judge him and think well, back then I wanted him to take care of me and be mine, he had to deal with his own issues when my father died. And you know, he got kicked out too for being a nightmare. So it was this vicious circle. And I think when my father died I just completely lost my mind.

Beverly Knight: You went in there.

James O’Keefe: Yeah, I just wasn’t taking care of myself. And I think that was the difference between me and Beverly.

Beverly Knight: That’s an initial difference.

James O’Keefe: She had so much respect for herself as a person. I had absolutely zero. I didn’t care if I lived or died and it showed in everything I did.

Beverly Knight: I suppose on the contrary I cared so much. It was important to me to put my stamp on the world because I knew from a young age that I would sing. I mean nobody wanted to tell me that I can’t sing. So that’s what I wanted to do.

Beverly: No one wanted to tell me I couldn’t sing

James O’Keefe: That was your mental strength and you still have it, you know.

Beverly Knight: Yes, it pushed me, but I had, even with my dad’s issues, I had no doubt that I was a loved child, even with the clashes, even with the struggles. Likewise, I had no doubt that my mother and father loved each other, even when arguments arose. And even by that I mean the relationship with us kids was comedic at times because my mother just told my father that he didn’t know what to do and my father was quite a reserved man. But we always knew there was love. And there was never the conflict because situations would come up that we would have to address. It wasn’t inherent to the relationship, if that makes sense.

James O’Keefe: We’ve been through so much my mother bless her now she’s still upset about what she did to us and I think you know mom no you know you didn’t push correct. It’s just a fact, you know, and I wouldn’t change it. And that gets to the whole, you know, mental nature of the consciousness side of things. And I wouldn’t change any of that because it made me strong as well as weak. And this vulnerability and this strength of both are important and I wouldn’t have that now and the same.

Beverly Knight: They stay side by side.

James O’Keefe: Yes. And I think that’s the biggest lesson we can learn, that you have to look back at everything the same way Beverley did and we look at the bad so well that it’s just as important, if not more important than the good, because you just learn and you become resilient, you become strong and you become tougher. Maybe not in the best way sometimes, but you know, I think it drives you somewhere, but then we talked beforehand, then my mind goes somewhere else and then I actually think I wouldn’t mind, in cotton to grow up. No problem.

Jan Gerber: At some point you go through something

James O’Keefe: Yes.

Beverly Knight: And what kind of adult would you have been then?

James O’Keefe: I don’t know if I could be really nice. I could be really reasonable, you know, we don’t know. We don’t know you and I don’t know you but you _ we are what we are now and we just have to accept it, love it. And just keep going.

Jan Gerber: You know your messages; You can’t change the past. You can learn from it. You can draw energy and positive lesions from it.

James O’Keefe: It has to be.

Jan Gerber: But you shouldn’t allow yourself to be pursued by it.

James O’Keefe: No, not very nice things have happened to both of us, you know, in different ways, same and different.. and the other thing is everyone’s journey, how people are watching this and could go well, my situation worse than mine good for you yeah and for me mine was worse or you know it doesn’t matter. It’s not a competition we just have to look at ourselves and go, it happened, learn from it, accept it, love it and move on and just try and grow.

Beverly Knight: It’s the only way you can do it; otherwise things can consume you. I have observed the resentment of how my father was treated and believe in myself that the way he was treated was not good. And I’ve seen him consume it over the years as a kid, I understand that now. As you know I’ve grown up, now I understand what happened to my father was this slow inner destruction of a man who by nature was a loving, decent and hardworking man, but couldn’t let go of his grudges for, how he was treated when he came to Britain.

James O’Keefe: The other thing is that you remember your childhood so much because.

Beverly Knight: But it was a good childhood, so I remember it.

James O’Keefe: Yes. And there are so many parts of my childhood. I just have no idea. Absolutely yes.

Beverly Knight: That’s how you dealt with it, that’s how you dealt with it

James O’Keefe: Exactly what I’m thinking now is my coping mechanism, which I seem to have just tuned out. And I think there are certain things I remember about my father and mother, and you know, but I remember being loved by my mother. You know my dad, I know he loves me, but you know it’s always disappointing me, and that influenced me as the promising thing when we got together, didn’t it? It was one of the things I finally got to say to Beverley after we got married: I promise I’ll give myself to you, because before that I had a hard time saying you know I promise because I just feel like it that I couldn’t, so that influenced me my father.

Jan Gerber: Yes, because your father made you a lot of promises and didn’t keep them.

James O’Keefe: I’m very careful about promises, very careful.

Beverly Knight: I promise you, you really like the word promise.

James O’Keefe: For my nephews and everything. If I say I promise I’ll be there and anything can happen. I’ll do my best to be there. If I could give some advice to parents and I’m not a parent. I would say don’t use the word promise.

Beverly Knight: Just in case.

James O’Keefe: Yes, because anything can happen; You know? So.

Beverly Knight: I really think things are binary, but they’re not… You said you’d be there.

James O’Keefe: Right.

Beverly Knight: Well, there was a car accident.

James O’Keefe: Someone died up front. It could be anyone.

Beverly Knight: But you said you’d be there.

James O’Keefe: Yes, that’s why I’m there.

James O’Keefe: Kids understand that.

Jan Gerber: I mean, for children, the parents are the absolute reference points.

Beverly Knight: Absolutely.

Jan Gerber: Parents stand for the truth and parents cannot lie and parents are wrong and then when you.

James O’Keefe: Until I do.

Beverly Knight: Then when you realize it.

Jan Gerber: It’s really confusing for kids who aren’t of an age where they might be able to understand it.

Beverly Knight: How do we process it?

Jan Gerber: Exactly.

James O’Keefe: I was super mad at my mom. I hated my mother for a while, I hated my sister. You know my brother I went through everything else you know and then of course you know my dad died young I was so angry about everything I was just angry all the time. And then you know, he kind of got into our kind of twenties and then my world issues died, you know, with the _ I think with the self-torture was what I had to get out there and figure out my life. And drugs came along, you know, obviously I drank. I’ve been drinking since I was thirteen. I was drinking, you know, and doing crazy things from that age, and then doing drugs when I was eighteen, and then it got really bad, you know, I walked for twenty-one hours at the top of a multi-story parking garage and I was like, what is this? You know, and it’s really been so deep, you know, and I almost died from drugs two or three times, you know, I was at that point where you, you know, and you just didn’t care, you know , and it’s so strange situation and hard.

Jan Gerber: There are very clear indications or connections from research that drug abuse and addiction go back generations. So nobody really knows, you know, is it a genetic component or is it a learned behavior, but when you saw your father, you experienced your father and what he was like, that must have affected you, and he said know You, with low self-esteem. Appreciation and not really a positive attitude towards life, the turn to drugs to alcohol is also a coping mechanism, which is not good, but you tried to cope with it.

James O’Keefe: Yeah, the other thing I had when I was young was I was always told because I was a fat kid too. So, I’ve always felt like I’ve always felt like a failure, you know, and always, you know.

Beverly Knight: You didn’t have any teachers who really encouraged you.

James O’Keefe: I’ve had some good teachers.

Beverly Knight: But most of the time school and classes weren’t a positive force in your life.

James O’Keefe: I was so naughty, so I was so bad they couldn’t do much with me because I was so angry and so violent and so divided.

Beverly Knight: And nobody thought to look beyond that and understand what drives extinction for me.

Jan Gerber: In a certain way in a vicious circle.

James O’Keefe: Yes, teachers have 30 other children.

Beverly Knight: Yes, of course.

James O’Keefe: I don’t think they know, and I was the only kid they just sent me out, you know, and that was it, and I did crazy stuff at school, you know, and Yes, I was fighting all the time.

Beverly Knight: You get the money.

James O’Keefe: You know, I’ve had to have tuition and stuff, you know, and all sorts of things just really bad. You know I was the kid in school worst of the year you know I just didn’t have any and it’s the lack of self esteem I had but I didn’t know I just didn’t care. I didn’t care, you know; I don’t care, that was mine, you know.

Jan Gerber: So you haven’t thought or tried to understand why you feel that way.

James O’Keefe: Just anger.

Jan Gerber: Yes, of course.

James O’Keefe: External Anger.

Jan Gerber: Anger.

Beverly Knight: I was nothing of what I was

James O’Keefe: You liked being told you were brilliant, and I was told I was rubbish all my school life, I was told I was just nothing.

Beverly Knight: Exactly. And that’s what I was told by my elementary school teacher, Mrs. Barnard. God love her, she is still with us. And she told my mum and dad who was going to parents’ evening, they’d both show up together, but I was told Beverley Special she had a very special voice. She’s very busy, blah blah blah. She will do special things. I was a little kid, I thought I’d take this. I believed it because I’m going to do it. That’s what people said. And I had that all through high school. So I thought I was going to do something special and I knew it had to do with my voice. You know, but it made me want to be the best student. So I became this bookworm, always reading and learning. I had the glasses for it. I looked just like the geeky student that I was.

James O’Keefe: There’s also a lot of pressure that also puts pressure on a kid. So even though you could all say they were wrong when they told me they were wrong to say that to Beverley because there’s a lot of pressure to mentally pressure a kid because if they that doesn’t work.

Beverly Knight: If I hadn’t made it or had failed in my studies.

James O’Keefe: Exactly.

Beverly Knight: I wouldn’t have been very; it wouldn’t have gone so well for me. There was an expectation that I would do well in school.

Jan Gerber: Luckily.

Beverly Knight: Luckily I did.

James O’Keefe: But if you put that pressure on 10 kids, how many of them will it be?

James O’Keefe: Yes, that’s where I refuse to do homework, I didn’t want to do it. And I thought, that doesn’t make any sense to me. You know, none of that. I thought, but I think it’s just as hard sometimes to put all that pressure on a kid. So, I don’t know where that balance is.

Jan Gerber: And that’s general, that’s about raising children, that’s about mental health in general, there’s no one-size-fits-all.

Everyone is different. Also different basic resilience

James O’Keefe: Exactly.

Jan Gerber: Everyone is different. Different basic resilience to cope with different things in life and it will be an interesting thought experiment for you to reverse your roles if you grew up in an environment like James and vice versa.

Beverly Knight: Exactly.

Jan Gerber: Who knows what would have happened.

Beverly Knight: Who knows.

James O’Keefe: I would never want to put Beverley through that.

Beverley Knight: Imagine if I always argued with your mother, oh no.

James O’Keefe: No. when you are young

Beverly Knight: When I was young, oh yeah. I never stop arguing. I’ve always argued. I preached the gospel of Bev because I was always right.

James O’Keefe: Yes. I usually do.

Beverly Knight: Oh my god.

James O’Keefe: So that thing, you know it. So, it’s funny if we look at it, sometimes we laughed, if we look at when we were twenty-one, say, let’s say, you know, Beverley was twenty-one and James was twenty-one, or Beverly was twenty-one it.

Beverley Knight: First album, finish writing my first album, writing my dissertation at the same time.

Meeting someone like Beverley who didn’t do anything was an absolute breath of fresh air for me because I saw, my god, you know that.

James O’Keefe: I was dealing drugs, doing a huge amount of drugs and basically fighting and being a jerk and going out seven nights a week, that was it.

Beverly Knight: It’s been a lot, but there’s so many things that we obviously know, but there’s been so many things that we’ve shared, you know, that were totally in common. Fathers who were treacherous for stupid things. We watched the same kids shows you know we both loved you know cars and stuff and just silly things we would have in common that even though our lives seem so different there were a lot of similarities. And I think that can comfort you too, because you can see that someone’s life was so privileged and so far and away from your own, and yet there are still parallels to that life that you can draw, because our life on the surface is nothing but love you.

James O’Keefe: I love that.

Beverly Knight: There are things we’ve been through that were the same.

James O’Keefe: But I like the fact that, as you know, when you’re with someone like Beverley who doesn’t drink or smoke, some people talk about it, and she never did, and I did, They know everything. It is, but I never want Beverley to do that. I never want her to experience all of this because it doesn’t make you any better. You know it’s not like, oh yeah, do that and you don’t make yourself better, don’t make your life better. And you don’t know where to go. My problem with drugs, cigarettes, all this you don’t know until you do, what your problem is going to be is a very important fact and I guess I’m not saying you know it’s a fact of but how i feel about it You don’t know until you take the first piece of it how it will affect you. Some people can do it and then some people like me have been insane in their free time and wouldn’t be the last ones you know. And meeting someone like Beverley who didn’t do anything was an absolute breath of fresh air for me because I saw, my god, you know that.

Jan Gerber: Because it’s unusual and most people would share their life experiences.

James O’Keefe: It was inspirational for me too and really made me look at myself and think you know what and it inspires me and still does to be a better person, you know, more caring and fairer thinking better of people and not judging all those things, you know.

Beverly Knight: But then I look, because I didn’t go through any of that, I grew up with it. It wasn’t super strict. But you know, I had limits, but they were defined by Christianity. Both my parents were Christians and that’s how we were raised and that wasn’t why I didn’t smoke or drink because everyone in my family drinks but hardly any but I hated alcohol. I didn’t like the way people were around him and there was no way I was going to smoke. I would not do anything that could damage my voice. But also when I look at James’ life and see what he’s been through but still had enough determination to pull himself out of Maya to do something because you’ve had enough. You had the moments of clarity to know that I’ve either found myself or gotten off this drug scene, or I’ll be dead or in jail.

Jan Gerber: And there was a moment in the 20’s James where you turned things around? how was the process for you was it a moment of clarity? Did you wake up one morning after deciding you couldn’t go on like this? how did you find the power What was going through your mind at the time?

James O’Keefe: I mean, it’s difficult to say exactly what the trigger was. And we’ve talked before and it’s difficult for me to say what works and what doesn’t work because of course, as we said, we’re all completely different, but I think it’s important to separate yourself from the situation and I managed to get a job in London, and getting back to what we were talking about: the law of attraction, where I used to say when I was young, like a cocky fifteen-year-old, I’ll be back to be in London before I’m twenty-five and blah blah blah for being cocky, for being so insecure. You know I tried to mask it. And I managed to blog the job but I had seven thousand pounds in drug debt to drug dealers who wanted to hurt me, who wanted to hurt my then girlfriend, her family, they wanted to do something bad to the house so I just had to get away. And I would have come back full of clothes and moved to London and that was nineteen years ago and it was a very slow process. You know I was very unhealthy. You know, I smoked, I drank, I did drugs, crap, you know, all the usual. And I just joined the gym I worked at. And it was just a slow process. And then, fortunately, when I left, I’m a 100% person or not at all. And that got me through because I then focused on something else. And then, with that focus, it got rid of the other stuff. So and then.

Jan Gerber: So the focus was on movement.

James O’Keefe: With exercise and then wanting to educate myself because I wasn’t literate when I still wasn’t, but I tried _ I started reading more and I started doing self-help trying and reading books and trying to educate myself and striving for better things you know to try to buy some property and these little incremental steps I’ve taken. You know I still didn’t have anyone to theoretically help me because I didn’t know my mom was just doing her thing, obviously we still have contact but not in many years. And you know, I was just working, all I had was hard work, and I just did that, and that got me through, you know, there’s no magical thing I can think of that… was , but I guess it was just not wanting to be in this situation anymore.

Beverly Knight: Well, I think the moment you knew you were coming to the lead, it was either I’m going now or I’m never going because I’m in jail or.

James O’Keefe: I remember because I know that when I was twenty-two I almost went to jail anyway. And I think then, you know, with some of the other things that happen and the bad stuff, it was a very toxic environment. You know, but I think you have to look at yourself later, but it’s also hard when you’re young, because the friends and that’s your group and your mind knows that, that’s all it knows, and you you know and I’m so used to being in trouble and doing stupid things and you know driving around in the car with thousands of pills these are crazy things you know I didn’t give a fuck about anything and you know but these positive side was I think that comes from me mom. I think that was my mother’s voice that I always had in my head. I think if you don’t have that, you know there are probably kids out there now or who don’t have at least one person who gave them something and although I wasn’t when I spoke to my mom, that voice was still there, so well that you know it well and badly. My mother was there, you know, and it was my mother. And that’s important, you know.

Beverly Knight: Her father was also a count.

James O’Keefe: Well he was.

Beverly Knight: He was when he, you know, because he did his _ when he worked his carpentry, he did a really good job.

James O’Keefe: He did a great job but he enjoyed the pub more. He always said that the best work is done in the pub, I’m pretty sure for the people out there that’s not true.

Beverly Knight: His work was great work.

James O’Keefe: It was amazing, an amazing journey.

Beverly Knight: And I think you have the same thing, if you do something, do it and make sure it’s damn good.

James O’Keefe: Absolutely.

Beverly Knight: And the detail.

Beverly Knight: So you inherited that from your father.

James O’Keefe: And my mother.

Beverly Knight: You know, and you’re like oh god and your mom, your mom is definitely a detail mom.

Beverley Knight: Yeah it’s funny ’cause you listen to this and you think oh yeah Beverley’s life has been fine, some issues with your dad but where things have been a little shaky for me I’ve decided when I say horrible relationships, but I’m in the trash.

James O’Keefe: That was around the same time, wasn’t it, when you were in our early 20’s when you.

Beverly Knight: Early twenties, you know; I didn’t do the whole dating thing all through high school because like I said, I was focused on the gig.

Beverly Knight: Boys weren’t…I wasn’t really…I was interested in this book.

James O’Keefe: I don’t think so.

Beverly Knight: Yes, exactly. But you know, my first serious relationship was with a man a lot older than me, and at seventeen it’s a big deal. Who was charming and manipulative and could be very aggressive. He tried to be with me physically once and never again because I had enough character to fight back and saw what it was and was like, okay, this has to end.

James O’Keefe: That’s why I don’t mess with her

Beverly Knight: And then the next thing, the next relationship was worse than literally walking out of a frying pan into the fire and choosing someone to be so possessive. And I think I’m so jealous of the fact that I was a popular person and I got along with people easily and he just wasn’t that kind of man because he had his own problems with his own.

James O’Keefe: How old was that again.

Beverly Knight: I was at college when I jumped off the frying pan.

James O’Keefe: Right.

Beverly Knight: Well, that was during.

James O’Keefe: How old was he then?

Beverly Knight: He’s only two years older than me.

James O’Keefe: And I think we forget that too, that as a boy at that age, no matter how you flip things, you’re still a boy.

Beverly Knight: Oh yeah, thinking back now he was quiet, he had no idea.

James O’Keefe: That possessiveness is just insecurity. And you know that, and one of the things I’d like to do in the future would be to work with younger men, kids, youth, you know.

Beverly Knight: insecure men.

James O’Keefe: Yes.

Beverly Knight: It’s a tough question.

James O’Keefe: But we’re all that age. And if there’s a woman, we want to control her because we’re insecure, and we all do it, I think most men do it, you know, most boys do it. And that sometimes makes the woman or the girl insecure.

Beverly Knight: Well, what I wanted to say further is that something quite unique happened to me in this relationship, which may have only happened once since that time, and that was okay. Instead of looking at this guy, I’m like, oh, you have issues with your family structure, which is why you are the way you are. I accommodated his behavior by trying to placate him. So, oh, I’ll be home by eight. I’d break my neck to be home by eight wherever I was and this is in my varsity years so you know you’re at varsity you’re out with your buddies maybe you have you studied late or not with some friends, or you went out to eat, or whatever, I would do anything to be home by eight and it became pathological. I have to be home by eight because if I’m home by five past eight there will be problems. And I will be accused of being with people here and everywhere that I wasn’t with and my character started to change, I started to withdraw and be what people didn’t say when I was there , but people describe me more like you became a mouse, you were like a mouse. Me, who was always confident and always, you know, so open with my views and you know, and happy make happy, became this mouse and I had to sign my record deal, which happened in my senior year of varsity , when I was spotted singing in a club at home, a very brief story was discovered before I went to you to sing in a club. I was offered a deal. I turned down the opportunity to sign on the spot because I said I knew I was good and precocious. i knew i was good And if you think I’m as good as you say, you say you wait until I graduate.

James O’Keefe: And they did.

Beverly Knight: And they waited. Oh dear God. Well they waited until my senior year and

James O’Keefe: You forget how you struggled with your own images.

Beverly: That was my lifeline. And I was gone, leaving him behind.

Beverly Knight: Oh yeah, oh no, I’ll get into that. It didn’t manifest itself as bad until a bit later, but yeah, what got me away from him with this guy was my first single that I wrote, which was released when I was in my senior year of varsity, went going off like a rocket in the clubs you know, in the specialty clubs, underground, which meant they needed an album, which meant I had to write one, which meant I had to hurry to graduate, to take my exams, come to London and start writing. He still had a year ahead of him because he was training to become a teacher. I returned to London as soon as I could.

Jan Gerber: You got the lifeline there.

Beverly Knight: Yes, that was my lifeline. And I was gone, leaving him behind.

James O’Keefe: That’s another thing about my situation, that sometimes you get away from it.

Beverly Knight: And at some point you have to physically withdraw.

Jan Gerber: That’s the only way. If you’re in a relationship like this, and you know how to describe these partners in a very charming and manipulative way at first, you’ve got a taste for it.

Beverly Knight: Absolutely.

Jan Gerber: And then, over time, very subtly, some character started, you know.

James O’Keefe: That’s how you got through to me, honey.

Jan Gerber: But that’s really difficult to say. So it becomes a bit, it becomes a kind of new normal. And when there are problems in a relationship, you doubt yourself, you question yourself, you question your own reality.

Beverly Knight: That’s exactly what happened. I doubted myself and directed my own behavior toward a peace of mind that was troubled.

Jan Gerber: You often see that in relationships in which partners are narcissistic. Beverly Knight: Yes.

Jan Gerber: And it’s really hard to get out of there because you still love that person, you’re trying to fit in, always afraid because you don’t know how they’re going to react if you do it like that.

Beverly Knight: Absolutely.

Jan Gerber: Well, you know some people who realize at some point that I have to go, others don’t survive such relationships.

Beverly Knight: Exactly.

James O’Keefe: It also has the ability to go anywhere.

Beverly Knight: where else are you going? Exactly, and why?

I had some where to go, I had them all.

James O’Keefe: But that’s part of why these women show up.

Beverly Knight: Exactly.

James O’Keefe: You know.

Beverly Knight: That’s why I had the future, I had a life and I had this thing in the back of my mind. They don’t consider long term because this behavior won’t work. When I travel the world because I was already far away for myself. I had planned all of this and this was going to be my life in the end. So, I knew if I got away, I could see that the path would be a lot clearer for me, and I did.

James O’Keefe: Yes, that’s where I have the greatest respect for my mother, which she works through with my father.

Beverly Knight: Your mother did the same

James O’Keefe: Three kids don’t help. She moved away and had to start a new house, a total rat, and she’s just been working hard and improving. And we had nothing and no food, flea markets, you know, for clothes all that and you know that stuff sticks with me now, don’t you?

Beverly Knight: Well, you still know you’re not going to make a sale once you’ve seen that through the rails.

James O’Keefe: I can’t mentally walk through a sale, I can’t.

Beverly Knight: Because it brings you right back.

James O’Keefe: In the kitchen I had to build two fridges and have stuff in them because when we were young I went in the fridge and there was nothing in it and it still sticks to me. It is strange. It yes.

Beverly Knight: And I’ve never been so lucky.

James O’Keefe: It’s a long way. But yeah, that whole rise that gets you out of something, you know, Beverley did it. I did it. My mother did it. People couldn’t.

Beverley Knight: My mom and dad did it, they had to retire from Jamaica because Jamaica wouldn’t do it at that time, wouldn’t give them the life either of them wanted. And the British government said, please come to Britain to help build the motherland. But of course they both made big decisions at a very young age to give up everything they knew to come to the UK and try. And the result of that is, I’m sitting here, you know, I’m grateful for that, but this thing with, okay, that’s it. It’s crunch time, I have to stay in this situation. And life will never get better, never better, or I’ve got to go, I’ve got to go. Luckily I had something to do. And I knew what it was.

James O’Keefe: It’s very scary.

Beverly Knight: It’s just scary.

James O’Keefe: You know, it’s hard for anyone even to quit a job or leave, you know, for the unknown, always the unknown, which is worse than what you think. And as far as I can tell, because I’m still the stuff that I’m doing in this day and age, Beverley is doing some great stuff. And she’s still doing stuff she’s never done before and, you know, some amazing stuff and bringing us new things. And that’s scary for Beverley and I do the same thing when I’m doing business and trying to start new things. And that’s scary, you know, trying again at forty-three. And it’s crazy, you know.

Beverly Knight: I had this basic belief and you had this basic belief that it would work, but you didn’t see what the plan was. There was no set plan or journey.

Jan Gerber: Uncertainty.

Beverley Knight: It’s uncertainty, and first of all going ahead with the record deal and all, that first deal didn’t work out the way I wanted it to because I had creative differences with the record label. And then finally left the label. But it was a lengthy legal situation and I had to start all over again. And there were times when my family was like Beverly and just came home. Come home, you always came home.

James O’Keefe: We’re talking about the late brother-in-law and sister-in-law, we wanted her to come, she said no I’m staying.

Beverly Knight: They wanted me to come home and just forget it. I’m like I don’t. I stay here. I have to fight my way through.

Jan Gerber: They want you to come home because they were worried about you.

Beverly Knight: You’re worried and sick for me.

James O’Keefe: You were worried and tired, you know she’s had enough, you know; it was literally starting over again with you know.

Beverly Knight: I had to start all over again

James O’Keefe: Living in someone’s house just got her through tough times and she just got through it with the power of the Spirit.

it was music and inside me this quiet little voice said, but this is your destiny.

Beverly Knight: And you know, my mom and dad wanted me to come home, my family, they will. But I didn’t want to go home because going home meant I had failed, that I hadn’t achieved what I set out to do. And that was music and that still small voice inside me said, but this is your destiny. That’s what you’re supposed to do. You can’t go home, you will derail fate.

James O’Keefe: Question for you that I probably wouldn’t have asked.

Beverly Knight: Go ahead.

James O’Keefe: But is there anyone you’ve wanted to prove to that, apart from yourself, you really did it? Because there’s some people I think back to my life, my mother, or I think I want to prove that I can, you know you didn’t really have that, right?

Beverly Knight: You know, I don’t know, I didn’t do it because everyone around me knew I was capable of making my career a success, everyone and no one doubted that I would do it. But the only thing for me was that I knew I needed, I knew I had a long way to go, I knew there would be obstacles because of my gender, because of my race, because I was British and not American , making music, which ultimately began its roots in America. I knew I had hurdles and just wanted to keep going.

James O’Keefe: I think that’s the immigrant way too because my, you know, my father, who’s Irish, I’m also part of the immigrants and immigrant beds, you know, family, so I think that there is a certain work ethic.

Beverly Knight: There’s a certain psychology there.

James O’Keefe: There is.

Jan Gerber: A resilience is coming.

James O’Keefe: It takes effort and I think all of what we’ve talked about before about the journey, you know, in life it’s very difficult to think about it at a young age, you know, the journey is the most important thing, but it really is, but you have to have that goal, but you also have to live in that moment. So, you have all these opposing views and opinions and things to think about when you’re young, it’s very difficult to get enough to go or I’ll think about the future and aim so high , but I’ll just bring it back to now. So it’s very difficult.

Jan Gerber: It was always said that the dynamic between the journey and where we wanted to go, you mentioned, you know, music as your purpose and you felt that very early on.

Beverly Knight: Absolutely.

Jan Gerber: So, music as your destiny, but how far has music been a tool or an outlet or mechanism for you too to actually guide you through this journey with its struggles, some of which we have discussed? it is a source of power for you to use.

Beverly Knight: Music has always been the cathartic of where I went to work. all out. If I need to clear it up, there’s a song, either I’ll write it or someone brilliant wrote it for me and I’ll sing it. And I’ll take her words and put them in my voice and I’ll sing them and it’ll kind of help me figure things out.

James O’Keefe: Words have always meant a lot to you.

Beverly Knight: Words are so important. Melody was always there because that was always my goal, I sang before I spoke. So, everyone tells me, my mother, my play school teachers, everyone says yes, Beverley sang before she spoke. But then the power of the lyric took over. I first saw the power of poetry, I guess through my religious upbringing, because people used to read the lyrics to hymns and songs. I listen to this, and this is so important, you know, and this is the message that God wants you to hear, and all of that.

Beverley Knight: You know, when you put aside all the stuff of the gods, the power of the word and the message, and couple that with a melody, suddenly you have something that goes far beyond what we can easily explain, and that’s how it was Music I went when I was happy, it was music, when I was sad, it was music, everything, and it wasn’t just music to listen to, it was what I would sing. So I started writing when I was about thirteen. The moment I could really make sense of the piano. Then I started writing songs, crap songs, but it was my way of trying.

James O’Keefe: So different from mine.

Beverly Knight: Yes you, turn to other things, I have always turned to music. And I’m lucky again that I had this gift that, you know, landed in my womb at the birth of music, because if the music wasn’t there, what else would I have turned to? It was always there and it was so immediate. I just had to open my mouth and just sing. And I realized how lucky you know I’ve been and I have that. But what was important to me was that I could share that with other people, that when I’m writing my songs, I’m doing it while I’m working on stuff for myself , maybe make sense to someone else out there. That was my hope.

James O’Keefe: And you have, I mean, the letters that Beverley gets and the well wishes and the love that she gets and you know that it affects me because I see that and I’m so proud of it that my wife does this for people who do this.

Beverly Knight: You don’t always notice it, you sometimes think.

James O’Keefe: Honestly, all of these little things have made me a better person, and I get really warm to it when I read someone you know, the letter Beverley gets, or you know a card and it is very beautiful.

Beverly Knight: All those tweets.

James O’Keefe: And it’s a nice thing, you know.

Beverly Knight: It’s funny because I’ve always empathized with the bad choices in relationships. I started doing that when I first came to London and you know it was with my deal and everything and my second deal and things really started to take off commercially, you know, into the mainstream. That’s when I really started to feel like a square peg in a round hole. So I didn’t think I didn’t look like a pop star. I didn’t speak like a pop star because there was so much prejudice and cliché that contributed to that. I wasn’t an American.

James O’Keefe: Looking back now, do you think it’s obvious that it’s out in the open that made that two hundred times bigger? So this was your…

Beverly Knight: Yes.

James O’Keefe: Right.

Beverly Knight: When I was.

James O’Keefe: Well, people don’t realize that we go through these insecurities when we’re young, they’re big enough, but then when you come out into the public eye, that’s how people look at you.

Beverly Knight: They’re looking at you. They examine you from head to toe.

James O’Keefe: And your record label tells you stuff and you know do this or do that or you have to be sexier and that was one of the things I respected about Beverley when I met her that she didn’t put into it at all to them she was her own wife, good or bad, detrimental to her career or not. She was who she is.

Beverly Knight: It was harmful.

James O’Keefe: Yes, it was detrimental that she didn’t do drugs. Not going to the parties, not going out, you know, having sex with everyone you know, wearing all those things and all the skimpy outfits and wanting to show off.

Jan Gerber: You stay true to yourself.

James O’Keefe: Well, that’s so difficult.

Beverly Knight: It was so hard being this square peg in a round hole.

James O’Keefe: So you work that into a song with the same men, right?

Beverly Knight: That’s why I wrote this song.

James O’Keefe: It’s powerful.

Beverly Knight: I wrote this song because that was all I could do. I was part of this industry that I just didn’t feel I could easily fit into. There was no doubting musical ability, I never doubted that and never have, but there wasn’t a tribe I fit into. And there is still no tribe that I fit into.

Jan Gerber: Did that feel pretty lonely?

Beverly Knight: It was lonely, that was it.

James O’Keefe: I felt that in different ways growing up, and that’s one of the things we talk about the synergy in our lives. We go, why didn’t that fit, I didn’t feel quite good enough or that enough or you know, and then it came out in different ways, you know, it’s an interesting thing for each other.

Beverly Knight: Das stimmt.

Jan Gerber: Wir sprechen vom Leben im Rampenlicht. Es sind viele Leute: Sänger, Schauspieler, sogar Politiker, Leute, die im Rampenlicht der Öffentlichkeit standen, die immer diese prüfenden Urteile spüren, weil, weißt du, nicht jeder dich lieben wird. Es ist einfach so. Und das erzeugt viel Druck und Druck von außen, und viele Leute im Rampenlicht werden das verinnerlichen, und Sie wissen, es kann ihre eigenen Unsicherheiten nähren. Also noch einmal, wenn Sie über Forschung, Statistiken und all das sprechen und jemand, der ein Leben im Rampenlicht der Öffentlichkeit führt, wie Sie es tun, ist rein statistisch gesehen ein viel höheres Risiko für psychische Gesundheitsprobleme durch Drogen und Alkohol, oft auch durch verschreibungspflichtige Medikamente.

Beverly Knight: Das überrascht mich nicht.

Jan Gerber: Du weißt nur, dass du nach einem Gig runterkommen musst, um dich mit negativer Presse auseinanderzusetzen, selbst wenn es sich um eine Boulevardzeitung handelt, die nur etwas aus dem Zusammenhang gerissen ist.

Beverly Knight: Wir waren dort.

Jan Gerber: Sie erleben das. Wie wirkt sich das emotional auf Sie aus? Weil wir festgestellt haben, dass Sie sich von stimmungsverändernden Substanzen fernhalten. Du hast eine starke, weißt du, Belastbarkeit, ich kann das spüren, wenn ich nur neben dir sitze, fühle ich diese Kraft, aber es muss dich beeinflussen.

Beverly Knight: Das tat es, es war eine Art Abplatzen, je länger ich in London war, desto mehr fühlte ich mich, als würde ich einfach nicht dazu passen. Ich war eine schwarze Frau, die der falsche Typ von Schwarz war, der ich war. Ich war nicht leicht genug, ich sah nicht europäisch genug aus. Das war also ein Problem. Und weißt du, ich war zu der Zeit ziemlich einzigartig, als ich in meinen frühen Jahren die Musik machte, die ich machte, es gab nur sehr wenige Leute aus Großbritannien, die diese Art von Musik machten, Britpop eroberte die Welt, und dann war da noch ich. Weißt du, es war eine seltsame Zeit, in der ich nicht all die stimmungsverändernden Dinge getan habe. Und dann sah ich nicht aus wie meine amerikanischen Kollegen. Ich war nicht das harte Mädchen wie Mary J. Blige, die phänomenalen Erfolg hatte. Ebenso war ich nicht das sexy Mädchen wie die SWV-Mädchen oder, wissen Sie, wie TLC oder, wissen Sie, Ashante oder irgendeine dieser Art von Mädchen. Und ich war keiner von denen. Da ich also nicht einfach oder sauber in einen dieser Stämme passte, wurde ich viel verspottet. Und einiges davon stand in der Presse. Und nach einer Weile begann das für jemanden, der immer dieses starke Selbstbewusstsein hatte, zu bröckeln. Und es war eine Zeit Mitte zwanzig, in der ich jetzt zurückblicke und denke, ich kann nicht einmal glauben, dass ich das war, aber ich fing an, mich schlecht zu ernähren und nicht zu trainieren. Ich hatte immer so viel Spaß. so voller Fitness und Soul-Fitness als Spaß und all das, und ich habe einfach aufgehört und dann zugenommen, und dann wurde das ein Problem, weil das Plattenlabel sagte, na, jetzt bist du viel zu schwer, viel zu schwer, Größe zwölf, aber viel zu schwer. Und, und um fair zu sein, ich sah mich selbst an und ich sah nicht aus wie das Ich, das ich mein ganzes Leben lang gekannt hatte und.

Jan Gerber: Das Leben im Rampenlicht begann seinen Tribut zu fordern.

Beverly Knight: Es fing an, seinen Tribut zu fordern. Und das war schwierig.

James O’Keefe: Und Sie wussten auch, dass hinter den Kulissen offensichtlich auch Dinge vor sich gingen, die mich unglücklich machen werden, und es war alles ein perfekter Sturm, nicht wahr?

Beverly Knight: Es wurde ein perfekter Sturm, wie ziehst du dich da raus?

James O’Keefe: Wie ging es Ihnen?

Beverly Knight: Nun, ich hatte Glück, denn zu dieser Zeit sammelte ich einige anständige Leute um mich, von denen einige heute noch meine Freunde sind, aber eine bestimmte Person, die ich in dieser schwierigen Zeit traf, war ein Typ namens Tyrone. Wer war dieser extravagante, schwule; Mann, schwarzer Mann, der einfach immer lächelt, immer glücklich, was ich nicht wusste, er war auch HIV-positiv, er hat es mir damals nicht gesagt, aber wir haben uns getroffen und ich möchte sagen, wir haben uns verliebt, aber nicht im romantischen Sinne Ich habe mich einfach so schnell und so fest verbunden, und ich verdanke es Tyrone, dass er mich aus dieser Krise herausgeholt hat, weil er mein wahres Ich hinter all dem, was Sie wissen, gesehen hat und versucht hat, die Presse und ihren Unsinn und das Rampenlicht zu ertragen, das er gerade gesehen hat Beverly und …

James O’Keefe: Er würde auch sehr leicht hetero sein. Ich habe nicht gesagt, dass er so ist.

Beverly Knight: Ja, das tut er, weil.

James O’Keefe: Weißt du, mach dich einfach fertig und zieh den Rock an und geh einfach raus.

Beverly Knight: Früher habe ich Hosen getragen, weil ich nicht wollte, dass mich etwas ablenkt, ich würde keinen Rock tragen, weil ich nicht wollte, dass mich etwas von meiner Musik ablenkt. Ich wollte als Musiker ernst genommen werden, weil oh mein Gott, und sie werden mich einfach unterwerfen und ich bin eine Frau, das neue Mädchen, und er meinte, ihr könnt beide eure Nadeln aus ihren großartigen Nadeln holen, Holen Sie sie raus, wissen Sie, entspannen Sie sich um Gottes willen, entspannen Sie sich.

James O’Keefe: Und es war nur eine kurze Zeit.

Beverly Knight: Ja, er war nur relativ kurz in meinem Leben.

James O’Keefe: Aber es war riesig.

Beverly Knight: Ab 1998 und dann starb er 2003. Aber das war die Zeit, in der ich mich veränderte, zum ersten Mal in meinem Leben anfing, an mir selbst zu zweifeln, weil ich nicht in die Londoner Szene und den Rest passte . Um es so zu sagen, ich passe absolut dazu. Ich habe gerade meinen eigenen kleinen Bereich für mich selbst geschaffen. Und auf dieser Spur bin nur ich. Ich habe meine eigene Spur und ich bleibe darin und was auch immer für die Spur aller anderen. Und er hat mir wirklich geholfen, mich wiederzufinden.

James O’Keefe: Aber es war damals auch eine der schwersten Zeiten in ihrem Leben. Das ist es, was Sie im Leben durchmachen, wir reden immer darüber, es hat sie zu der Zeit stärker gemacht, als es ihr Leben verändert hat. Und dann, als er starb, hat er sie offensichtlich wirklich wirklich getötet, aber sie musste sich dann wieder dagegen wehren.

Beverly Knight: Absolutely.

Beverly Knight: Tyrone, sein HIV war fortgeschritten. Ich wurde seine Betreuerin. Ich hatte, wissen Sie, einen Haufen Schönwetter-Freunde. Er hatte auch einige großartige Freunde. Wen meine Freunde bis heute auch, aber ihr wisst wie es ist, auf der Krise verschwinden die Schönwettermenschen. Die wirklich tollen Menschen bleiben bei dir. Und so hatten wir ein Netzwerk von uns, die ihm einfach durchgeholfen haben. Ich wurde sein Hauptbetreuer, wir leben zusammen, und er verschlechterte sich einfach gesundheitlich, während ich es könnte, und das ist _ es war diese seltsame Gegenüberstellung meiner Karriere, die mein drittes Album, das mein zweites mit meinem zweiten Vertrag war, wirklich abhob. Also war es Album Nummer drei für mich, Album Nummer zwei für dieses Plattenlabel, das Parlour Phone war. Das Album hat absolut abgenommen. Ich war fest im Mainstream und alles lief gut, aber hinter den Kulissen verlor Tyrone ihn und ich wusste, dass ich nichts tun konnte. Nichts, was ich tun konnte … ich konnte ihn nicht retten, weißt du, und aber er hatte mich gerettet. Und das war das Schwierige.

James O’Keefe: Sie hat alles versucht, sie hat es getan, sie war unglaublich für mich.

Beverly Knight: Ich habe es letztendlich versucht.

James O’Keefe: Und das war es, was Sie wissen, Sie mussten das durchmachen. Und manchmal, weißt du, im Leben muss man durch diese Härten gehen, um ein besserer Mensch zu werden, weißt du, um ein Chef zu sein, musst du. Und genau das hat Beverly durchgemacht. And that was his role. And you have to take that in life sometimes as people come and go, and that’s their role in life just like you are part of someone’s journey. And if you can enrich someone’s life, I said to you earlier about trying to add value to every situation. I have worked so hard to try and do that, because I can be a bit of a nightmare sometimes. And I always say that, you know, there can only be one devil in a relationship and that’s me, you know, so, you know, it’s the journey, it’s that again you have to have the set things happen, you know, put them in a box and go that was that was amazing or terrible or whatever. But I learned and I grew and then and then, you know, and that..

Beverley Knight: His purpose, I’m trying to find my tissue, his purpose in life, I got to find it somewhere. I believe that he was there, I was there to help him fulfill his dreams. He wanted to be a TV presenter, he ended up being a TV presenter because, you know, I managed to connect him to certain people and there he was, he can YouTube him and there he is. And he enabled me to be the very resilient and strong woman that I am now, which meant I was in the right place to meet James. And you know, we met a few…

Jan Gerber: You went through another..

Beverley Knight: Yeah, I went through another cycle of nonsense, but it didn’t _ it wasn’t quite the same nonsense when I was young, we didn’t have that same dangerous thing. It was just nonsense. But um yeah, it’s just funny at the, what was the most wonderful part of my career at that time was also the hardest part of my life.

James O’Keefe: It’s also a beautiful thing of it. And that’s the journey in that.

Beverley Knight: That’s it.

Jan Gerber: What is the notion of paying it forward from what he did for you and I mean, you’re very engaged in charitable work and make a huge contribution for you know, a lot of people out there.

Beverley Knight: I honestly believe that, yes, we will have our struggles and I’ve had mine but I am in this privileged position of gratitude for it, but I am in this privileged position whereby I have a platform, and I will use that platform as much as I can. You have to pay it forward because you have to, you know, Tyrone, even at his weakest physically, was enabling magic to happen for me because of how he really helped me to just reignite my self-esteem and my, and gave me a confidence in my physical being that I didn’t have before.

James O’Keefe: And you and I have heard about the magic thing, the value thing, isn’t it?

Beverley Knight: Yes, it is magic.

James O’Keefe: And that why I just wrote a book, you know, Creating Magic Jason. So, you know, it talks about that is just, you know, looking beyond yourself and trying to do good for other people, and it’s hard, particularly when you’re going through a tough situation yourself to try and look out for other people. And we’ve, as I said, we’ve both been through really tough times. And I’ll probably be more selfish because I always when I was younger thought I was the victim of everything, you know, but.

Jan Gerber: It is also a coping mechanism.

James O’Keefe: You have to come out of that. And the big thing I do now through reading and trying to grow my mind and you know, is extreme ownership, you know, is to look at yourself and to go well, it’s my doing, you’re not blaming yourself, but it’s my doing and I’ll deal with it and I can, you know, progress everything, you know, if someone cuts you up, it’s not them, it’s you reacting. So, you just got to you know, process it and that’s what you know, but as I said, is a daily struggle to sometimes you know, again, Beverley is a naturally as we said at naturally happy kind of, you know.

Beverley Knight: It’s my disposition to be _ I’m to be happy.

James O’Keefe: To be positive and yeah, but me, I think through the, I’ve got friends who’ve had similar upbringings and you just have that kind of it’s a weird it’s like a defense mechanism is all the time. You know, it’s almost going back to when we’re cavemen you think there’s a, you know, something around the corner going to kill you. And it seems that my brain is wired more for that. So, I have to work at it, you know, I go cold water therapy and, you know, and I try and keep my thyroid in check. And, you know, an underactive thyroid and obviously, that affects me it affects, you know, it is a difficult thing to regulate.

Jan Gerber: An underactive thyroid, it can really severely and sometimes suddenly impact your mood.

Beverley Knight: Yeah.

James O’Keefe: I can get very _ sometimes I get very dark very quick.

Beverley Knight: Very quick out of nowhere. To me, it seems like it’s come out of nowhere. It’s been anything like I’m junking and laughing and then you’re not. And then I’m like wow where is that coming from it’s like a dark cloud is just set on your head and it’s zoomed in out of nowhere, it’s just sat on your head, and then you have to fight to get out of that blue.

Jan Gerber: But I think that’s an important point as well is you know, without knowing that there is this physical underlying thing on the functioning thyroid, such a sudden mood change it can have severe repercussions for both yourself and also your partner and the relationship. And I think it’s important to keep in mind also that we as human beings, our emotions, they’re also results of chemical processes in our brain. And sometimes it is very much a physical underlying issue. And so feeling in a dark place, feeling sad not coping.

James O’Keefe: It the fog as well, it’s weird

Beverley Knight: Sometime you can’t think clearly.

James O’Keefe: The health implications of an underactive thyroid, if you read them, you might go jump off a building, they’re horrific you know, it’s like suicidal thoughts this blah, blah, blah, right. So, I just put that away and think no and you know, weight gain and I’m like, no, I’m not going to believe that and this is again, I’m probably because I’m probably just obstinate. You know, I just want to like, you know, you call me.

Beverley Knight: Cooksey James.

James O’Keefe: Yeah, well, now you also call me contrary because I’m like, I don’t want to be the norm. I don’t want to just you know if underactive thyroid is this, no, I’m not going to be that. I’m going to try and get in good shape. I’m going to eat right. I’m going to… because all of these things impact. I’m going to use cold water. I’m going to use breathing I’m going to use meditation … And all of that stuff was so hard for me to do and I try to do them on a daily basis.

Jan Gerber: That seems to really help you and keep you.

Beverley Knight: It does.

James O’Keefe: Hundred percent.

Beverley Knight: It completely does. From standing watching you I can say that when you in the morning when you go out, you take our dog out and you do that whole thing.

James O’Keefe: And I’m up early, nearly at six and I’m out and I do my thing before then come back and then do my day. I’ve achieved something.

Beverley Knight: But that also centers you.

James O’Keefe: Yeah, hundred percent.

Beverley Knight: It writes you

James O’Keefe: The colder the water, it does.

Beverley Knight: The colder the water the happier he is.

James O’Keefe: Yes.

Beverley Knight: When he hasn’t done that. The difference in the day you always feel as though you’re just a little bit discombobulated, energy under par. This is not quite you.

James O’Keefe: I’m mixed up taking my thought my liver thyroxine and I took twenty-five micrograms too little. And I felt horrific for three days. And I honestly I’ve never had that much of a different I then switched up again to one- fifty a day. And I was instantly, I could think again and I was like, it was that quick. And it just that surprised me because it catches me out still, you know, and it’s that’s a very difficult thing to deal with. But I’m not going to bitch about it. I’m just going to get on with it. I’m going to have to process it and I know I may know about stuff. Sometimes, you know, like the blinds at home. Sorry, honey. You know, as I said, I’ve got my processes. I’ve got my systems and you know.

Beverley Knight: You have this system.

Jan Gerber: But that’s the coping mechanism.

Beverley Knight: It is a coping mechanism.

James O’Keefe: She just lets me get on with it, she knows the house is spotless. I’m like

Jan Gerber: That not too bad is it.

Beverley Knight: Yeah, there are upsides in everything the fact that James has, is like has to have control of certain things and has to have things exactly in the right place and all of that means the house is always clean and tidy and.

James O’Keefe: When we met, she first came out to my flat for the first time she thought I was the American Psycho guy because everything was in its place. All my clothes were lined up, ironed and everything she was like Oh look great and I liked to have things in a certain . Beverley doesn’t have that. It’s like it has to feel right.

Jan Gerber: I’m sure that makes her interesting dynamic environment. But then again, you know you describing how you build a structure for your everyday life. You know, you get up at that time early in morning, almost ritual and it gives you that sense of victory. achievement already in the morning that sets for a positive day. And I think that’s also an important message because having a structure either because it’s given or imposed on you, or, even more importantly, when it’s not and you need to build your own structure, but actually having a daily structure is something very, important

James O’Keefe: It is, but it’s equally though. And again, this is always where my mind goes to there is sometimes I wish I didn’t, because exactly, you know exactly what I’m going to say because it’s you have the structure then when you break the structure, you then feel bad or you stop beating yourself up. And one of the big things I did and I’m better now and this is some of Beverley help as well, she has helped me to overcome this, is to stop beating myself up when I don’t do things right or in my mind.

Beverley Knight: In your mind.

James O’Keefe: You know, because it’s only my mind, you know, or I don’t achieve what I want to achieve or I’d mess up something, I make a problem or I react badly I beat myself up for so long. But again on the flip side, it gives me the balance of to be able to look in the mirror and go no sort yourself out if you’ve been acting an idiot or you’re doing this or you’re not, is to try and fix that so.

Jan Gerber: I think the ability on reflecting on your own emotions and your demons, your fears, and I think that’s a very important skill that you’ve been able to hone over time.

Beverley Knight: James does it all the time and does it brilliantly because James will face himself in the mirror and say, I need to work on this. I need to do less of this more of that and will have that conversation with himself and then put it into action with me sometimes it feels like you’re pulling out of myself. I’m so used to being on my own and just writing the words down and in a song or singing it and I’m in a relationship you know, I am one half of this relationship and I don’t always verbalize what the processes that are going on here.

James O’Keefe: That’s from my dad.

Beverley Knight: And that is from his dad.

James O’Keefe: And that’s you know, and I’ve got things you know.

Beverley Knight: James will always do that James will always speak these things, will always illuminate what is in his mind and me not so much.

James O’Keefe: It gets me to a calm point straight away. If I just say, and when I was young I used to bottle up and then just explode like a maniac and it’d be in any situation.

Jan Gerber: That’s not the way to handle it.

James O’Keefe: You know, and now I just have to get it out straight away and say right, that made me feel bad or this you know, or I’m worried about this at the moment I even do it now, probably yesterday. I didn’t feel like I achieved what I want to be you know, and I’m still doing it, but then I talk about it. And I don’t want anyone to fix it or I just go right it out, I then go, okay, I can then now I can deal with it. Now it’s out there to the world that I haven’t felt this in a certain way. I’m not exactly where I want to be. And I don’t mind saying that, you know, I’m not exactly where I want to be in my mind in life. You know, I’ve got an amazing life and I’m happy. But you know, we talked about success or whatever. And, I don’t know where that is, and it’s exciting and scary still, and I’m forty-three. But I still feel like I’m twenty-two. So, I would never go back to that. Even if you can pay me all the money in the world, I wouldn’t go back to that.

Jan Gerber: Some people say I would pay all the money the world to go back to that.

Beverley Knight: No way.

James O’Keefe: Honestly, I’d swear my life, you know, you could offer me a billion pounds. I wouldn’t go back to that and live through the last… I wouldn’t do it. I would only want to go back twelve years and live through that because that’s my massage for you.

Jan Gerber: There’s a very valuable message I think is that with self-reflection and really getting to know you and what you need, based on past experience, to tackle all the emotions and you know adverse situations that life sometimes throws at us and you know, most likely still will, to build that resilience based on that reflection. It can be a very powerful way of navigating life.

James O’Keefe: Yes, I think so.

Beverley Knight: It’s important to look at yourself.

James O’Keefe: You do.

Beverley Knight: You have to because you have to learn the patterns, so that you can see the danger zone.

James O’Keefe: Our brains will try to do what isn’t the right way to do as well. So, we will try

Beverley Knight: to convince ourselves,

James O’Keefe: We try and go for the easy option, you know.

Jan Gerber: So you have to be honest.

Beverley Knight: We have to be honest.

James O’Keefe: You really need to be honest, but you also have to you have to go through hard times as well. So, you have to go through a level of uncomfortableness, or stress, a stressor, to then grow from it to become better. And that’s why I think all of this, what happened in our lives, it can only make you stronger. And I say to my nephews now because they’ve been through some tough times, and you know, and I say to them, you don’t see it now, but you will be a stronger man for what you know, you will be stronger for it. You just have to believe that and you have to self-reflect, like you said, and grow from it. And I think if you can do that you’re on a winner, whatever you do, whether you’re been men or you know, Jeff Bezos, you know, I mean, it doesn’t matter. I think if you can find happiness in yourself and what you’re doing, it’s the Holy Grail.

Beverley Knight: That was a tough thing. That was hard for my dad. You know, in the end, my dad died in 2010. He was beginning to find his way back. He had a breakdown when I was just as I was going off to uni. And then all those years of resentment and difficulties with the white people, particularly white people, because of you know, like my choice of James and my sister choosing Christopher and you know, that was difficult but just towards the end of his life, he started to I think he started to analyze himself and, and it was a crisis that did that for him. My sister got very ill was rushed to hospital, it frightened the life out of him.

James O’Keefe: Sometimes that’s the catalyst

Beverley Knight: Sometimes that’s what it takes.

James O’Keefe: Again we talk about the catalyst bar.

Beverley Knight: That’s what it took.

James O’Keefe: With health and wellness and all that thing, you can’t wait for that.

Beverley Knight: You mustn’t, I wish my dad hadn’t

James O’Keefe: All this mental health, the health the wellness, it’s so strictly linked.

Beverley Knight: It is.

James O’Keefe: You know, and that’s I think the takeaway I would say to anyone is to go to try as much as they can holistically you know, cold water therapy, good diet, you know, not beating yourself up but being hard enough on yourself.

Beverley Knight: Or truthful enough.

James O’Keefe: Yes, exactly.

Beverley Knight: That not always been part on it is been truthful with yourself, you know, what I mean, that’s always the best way.

Jan Gerber: It’s being prepared, building that resilience prevent things bit you know physical ailments speed, emotional crisis, in such way yeah, by preparing for it. And you can only prepare by constantly reflecting and you know, taking away the positivity from, from your experiences. This has been a very powerful and insightful conversation.

James O’Keefe: Thank you for that.

Jan Gerber: Thank you so much for sharing some of your very personal stories.

Beverley Knight: Thank you.

Jan Gerber: I really appreciate that.

Beverley Knight: We loved the opportunity to be here.

James O’Keefe: Yeah, really appreciate it.

Beverley Knight: Thank you so much.

Jan Gerber: Thank you Beverley, thank you James.

Beverly Knight: It’s my pleasure.

James O’Keefe: Thank you.

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